Healthcare is a right. America has it wrong.

Discussion in 'Politics' started by oneonone1, May 9, 2022.

  1. oneonone1

    oneonone1 New Member FCN Regular

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    Literally EVERY other first world country has some form of Universal Healthcare. America has tried the private experiment for far too long and we are the only first world nation with the worse infant mortality rate, HIGHEST medical debt, and one of the lowest among first world countries.

    This is an atrocity
     
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  2. Deb4P

    Deb4P New Member

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    I live in Canada, and although we have issues with our healthcare system, it is light-years more compassionate than the American system. I find it inconceivable to me that a family might go bankrupt because a family member was diagnosed with cancer or another devastating disease. No matter how expensive health care may be for a Canadian citizen there is never a charge for trying to save a life. We have a terrible waiting list issue for those who require non-life-threatening surgeries, but most countries in the world grapple with this issue. We in Canada were shocked to see the level of mistrust you have for your medical professionals during the pandemic. When surveyed Canadians on the one government program we are most proud of, 80% of us say it is our universal healthcare system. The Affordable HC Act is a good start, but more has to happen so that no family is devastated by a health crisis.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2023
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  3. hommedejoie

    hommedejoie New Member FCN Regular

    The Healing of America by T.R. Reid will do a lot to inform people about all of the healthcare options being used around the world. Spoiler - The US doesn't come off too well.
     
  4. ilfunguy85

    ilfunguy85 New Member FCN Regular

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    If you want a good low cost healthcare then it cant be government ran. The current system is to make the sick "customers" because "customers" come back. If you cure the person there is no need to come back. Its not about health. Its about money.

    The system that would work is get rid of out of network prices. Way to do that is make a law that prohibits ins companies, medical supply companies, and hospitals to share certain information. This would prevent deals being made that make healthcare expensive in this country. This would also open up the competition for medical supplies and medicine.

    Next offer business incentives based on how many full time employees they have that also have health benefits. You could also expand that to part time employees as well. By offering incentives businesses will more likely put employees on their health plan. You can also add an incentive based on how much a company invest back into the company and employees.

    Thing is in America the leaders are not trying to the best thing for its citizens. They are allowing America to be destroyed.
     
  5. hommedejoie

    hommedejoie New Member FCN Regular

    How do you think that American heath care is being 'government run'? It is not and it if there is any one that wants to make the sick recurring customers it the for-profit pharmaceutical businesses. Making it the system more captialist isn't going to help.
     
  6. ilfunguy85

    ilfunguy85 New Member FCN Regular

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    I agree with you that the pharmacutical companies want to keep people sick and returning. The health care system IS government ran. Just bc you dont get direct guidance from government doesnt mean its not ran by the government. A lot of medical companies, especially hospitals, get government assistance. What comes with that? Mandates that the government says do this or else. The or else is lose funding. There is also the mandated health coverage. It is against our constitution force the government to force anyone to buy anything. But citizens had to prove they had health coverage. The government is involved a lot more than they make it look. Through lobbyist the make laws that favor these medical companies. The health care act or Mister Niceguy care as some call it penalized those that didnt get healthcare. You accually get a lower bill if you dont have insurance. If the government wasnt involved then people wouldnt get a penatly for not having healthcare. They made something that was not a demand and made it a demand. When you do that it drives the cost of that item or demand up. By adding incentives that reward companies that produce jobs with healthcare coverage you not only provide those workers with a job and healthcare but also lower the dependancy on government assistance which in turn wouldnlower taxes bc the government wouldnt need that tax money.

    Whats the best way to control a nation? Control their medical and food supplies. A free nation has choices. To have choices you have to have companies that produce that product. The more companies there are the lower the cost and better coverage you can get bc of competition. For some reason people thing that competition is a bad thing. Capitalism is what fuels free countries bc it rewards hard work. In a capitalist market the companies compete to be the top company. It drives indiviuals to do better.
     
  7. hommedejoie

    hommedejoie New Member FCN Regular

    Healthcare is always a demand. This idea that young people just starting out, for instance,don't care about having healthcare because they are healthy now was actually a meme created by Wendell Potter who was working for the insurance industry.

    Look - you have some truly awful ideas about how health care works - go read the book I referenced upthread first. Then try to argue against Universal Health Care with a straight face.
     
  8. ilfunguy85

    ilfunguy85 New Member FCN Regular

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    Why are my ideas "truely awful"? They are based on competition which fuels people or companies to be the best and/or get more customers. When you have more of a product or service you have a lower in cost. For example company A offers health coverage for $$$ and covers ABC. Company B offers health coverage for $$ and covers ABC. Both companies offer same everything else. The only difference is the health coverage. Which company would you rather work for A or B? It works the same with the healthcare marketplace. It was supposed to attract several insurance companies to offer coverage there in competition so that prices are lower. It didnt really work out that way.

    Also when you make a product a demand the price of that product goes up. Healthcare was not a demand before Mister Niceguy. He signed the affordable care act and made healthcare a demand which raised the cost of healthcare. Even the marketplace was high. When someone goes to the marketplace and gets coverage at a lower rate or discounted rate then what happens is that "discount" is covered by taxes or higher premiums for those that get health coverage through work. So now people working have to pay a higher premium AND higher taxes because substaties in the marketplace are paid with taxes.

    Im not saying people shouldnt have access to healthcare or healthcare coverage. I am saying we are approching it wrong by doing a "universal healthcare" way. Like i said in a previous post if you give the government control over your health and food they will have control over you. Not everyone wants health coverage. Some hardly go to the doctor. The only people that truely benefit from a universal healthcare program is lobbyist, the government and healthcare industry (hospital, pharmacutical co., ins co. so on).

    If healthcare was so important to the American government then they would stop allowing the modification of our food and allow alternative medicine to be covered by heathcare plans. But the dont bc its all about the money. Universal Healthcare is not the way to go.
     
  9. ilfunguy85

    ilfunguy85 New Member FCN Regular

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    In order to see what is going on one has to decide to take the blinders off first. Thing is once the blinders are off they cant be put back on.
     
  10. hommedejoie

    hommedejoie New Member FCN Regular

     
  11. SexyAsianBitch

    SexyAsianBitch Forum & Chat Moderator Staff Member FCN Regular

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  12. ThePyrate

    ThePyrate Well-Known Member FCN Regular

    personally, i don't think health care is a right. i think health care has been hijacked by insurance companies, and other bureaucratic entities that determine who can get health care, but, only if one plays by certain rules. There is no "free" health care as some tax payer has to subsidize the people getting the health care for "free", whom are not paying for it. Followed by, you typically get what you pay for. And we won't even get into the questionable medical diagnosis or medical malpractice that leaves patients worse off than they were before they were assisted. There are amazing things the medical sciences can do, and do, to extend people's lives. But if the cure is worse than the disease and the quality of life is not there, it tend to look a wee bit unethical. Try getting a PET scan for shits n' giggles, which could pinpoint most ailments before they start, and watch see the legal flaming hoops occur to prevent you from getting one...
     
  13. SandraMaus

    SandraMaus Well-Known Member FCN Regular

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    If you work in Germany and look at your payslip for the first time you will be shocked how much got taken away for taxes.. unemployment insurance and health insurance. The health insurance is about 14 % depending which one you signed up. It gets split in half you pay 7.5% your employer the other half. What is it used for. It kicks in from the moment you leave home for work. Should anything happen to you on your way to work you are covered. Anything health related happening at work you are covered. If you are sick and not working you still get your full pay. All you have to hand in at work is a notice from the doctor that signed you of sick and how long. But not why. And you don't have to tell your workplace why you sick. I never pay more than 10 Euro for any prescribed medication . No matter what the real price is. I only have to pay 10€ a day for the first 10 days when staying in a hospital each year. After that it's covered by the insurance. Basic dental care gets covered as well. A pharma company launching its new unique and patentetd prescription medication in Germany can set the selling price it likes for the first year. During this year the health department test and look at it closely if it really is unique and what extra benefits does it have . If it turns out it doesn't have any extra benefits to it or the therapy the company has to drop the price to a level that similar products already on the market use. If it does have extra benefits the secret talks between health insurance and company start about the final selling price. It usually ends that the final selling price is about 60% under the original price. The health insurance provider are non profit organisations however, and here is the big flaw in the system, they basically can decide what therapy gets witch medication even if the professionals and doctors say the other medication is better. . A few years back i got antidepressants which already needed 3 attempts until we found the right amount that helped me. The first 6 weeks have basically been just finding out what happens if I take 2 or 3pills each day and they only kick in after 2 weeks. Anyway I got well again and been off the meds for 6 months when I got ill again. I went to the clinic straight away. Same place, same doc, same meds. Nope. During the 6 months I was off them the insurance replaced them with something else. But we dicided to wait for a week. Good decision it was, then I got better during the week and left at the end of it. If we did start medication on Day 1 I would been in the place for another week just to find out what the meds doing with my head after setting in for 2 weeks. This was 6 years ago and I never had any signs getting depressed again since then.
     
  14. ilfunguy85

    ilfunguy85 New Member FCN Regular

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    I agree and not to mention how the insurance companies, hospitals, medical supply companies and pharacutical companies all work together to come to an agreement on a price. How is that not price fixing? Healthcare in the US went down hill when it was allowed to make a profit. If it was non profit then the price for healthcare would be resonable.
     
    ThePyrate likes this.
  15. ThePyrate

    ThePyrate Well-Known Member FCN Regular

    seeing is believing no?
     

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