Snowden is a traitor who should be in a federal prison. He doesn't deserve sympathy. If you agree to do the job he did you know it's not all pretty.
POTUS POTUS Impeachment
- Thread starter Ericisthename
- Start date
I admit that my knowledge is limited to the amount I have read and heard/seen, Assange is one who did things with an agenda. Snowden, on the other hand, was the one who said how governments along with telecom companies were surveilling their own citizens and even allies. It is documented that he rose these ethical concerns and they were ignored. Post that he leaked how this system works.
As for agreeing to a job, no bodies without a warrant can listen/collect/gather/record information for citizens without a warrant or governmental approval. US federal judge said if any such metadata is collected it is unconstitutional. Post that Clapper the head of intelligence under oath before a Senate investigation committee said: "NSA wittingly does not collects data on millions of Americans". He then informed his "contractor" as his terms were so and they said contractors cannot forward his issues any further. This has been documented for some time.
He knew what the consequences were for what he did . And he formerly worked for the CIA so he knew he would see things he may not agree with . The NSA broke the law . And so did he . I don't think should be given a break for his reasons . He didn't just realise information related to that . He wss responsible for the loss of assets and probably the deaths of C.I.A counter agents in Russia. He did what he thought was right sure . But were does that reasoning end ? Next intelligence workers and soldiers will say I refuse to work on this or that and I'll leak it . The law cannot work that way . And our national security cannot be endangered by someone's ideals . He should come back and stand trial if he's so sure of his convictions .
Agree on he broke the law, so did NSA. Thing is only one is made to stand on trial. As for the right thing, no one without a reason or security clearance should be scanning anyone, forget metadata collection of citizens domestic and foreign, Angela Merkel and over 100 world leaders were spied upon. If they did at least under oath should not be lying about it. The National Security apparatus fighting violations is understandable but what they were doing is something I personally do not feel is right.
As for the trial, last I remember his statement from October last year, he said he is currently booked under "the Espionage Act", that act gives me closed court, with no jury sort of trial. He asked for open trial with a jury and is ready to return. Time will tell how and what unfolds on this.
He cannot be tried without a jury . He would go to court and have the same rights as anyone else. There are no separate courts for the espionage act . It's a violation of federal law so he would go to federal court. The trial could be closed to the public yes but not just espionage cases can be closed to the public. I'm not saying the NSA was right. But he knew when he did what he did what the consequences would be . His good intentions do not get him a pass. As far as spying on world leaders we all spy on each other. Allies spy on each other just as well as their enemies. Only difference is the U.S got caught. And I'm not the biggest fan of government but in this case they have no choice but to come down hard . These types of things can not be allowed to go unpunished or others will think it's ok for them to do. He had a security clearance. Everyone with one of them knows what happens if you break that oath. Him included.
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baresken
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I am a registered Democrat and I am discontent with what the Democratic party has become. Look what has happened to California, my home state (but no longer living there), I don't want that to happen nation wide. I have not voted Democratic in the past 3 presidential elections and will not in this upcoming election. I don't always agree with Trumps behavior, he is not by any means politically correct, his public speaking may not be the most adequate, and his tweets should maybe be better thought out, but this does not make him a bad person or El Comandante, and I don't feel that he has done anything that warrants going through this impeachment process. I do not agree with everything Rudeman has done, but I do agree with the results he has attained. Not being as attuned to the political arena as I probably should be, I will make the wager that the Democrats have done far worse during their reign, we the people just never heard about it. I do think the democrats have their panties all waded up in a bunch over the fact that their way of doing things, or better yet not doing things for this country, is coming to an end. It seems to have turned more personal for the democratic hierarchy, than thinking about the betterment of this country. I hope that I haven't come across sounding angry writing this, because I am not. It's just my opinion, take it or leave it. I do know I need to seriously rethink my political affiliation...enough said.
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baresken
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Ok words changed when I posted this to the site. El Comandante should be "presidential"without the "ial". Rudeman should have been "he". Words were changed so proof read your posts.
Words changed in this post as well. I guess some words are not allowed and corrected instantly.
Words changed in this post as well. I guess some words are not allowed and corrected instantly.
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So you are fine with inviting a foreign government to interfere in our election process a violation of the law. You are fine with the illegal withholding of money approved by Congress. You are fine with using the office of Pres.ident for personal gain. You are fine with endangering our national security. You are fine with that endangerment benefiting our enemy Russia. You are fine with our foreign policy bring carried out by Rudy . You are fine with the Presiden.t obstructing Congress. You are fine with trying to cover up curruption. And you are fine if the next Democratic Presi.dent does all these things as well right ?
Also, he said they would "rake the 'ground' of the forest" as supposedly Finland's PM told him they do on a regular basis to avoid Forest Fires.
Later Finland Official statement was - We never said anything like this ever.
it is not about saying the right thing or as you said "politically correct", it is just saying real/true/honest/legit things. "results attained" - that phrase has a lot of cover-ups. I would request you to just see things around, the deficit has ballooned beyond control, climate accords have been thrown out, job numbers are high as people are working two-three jobs to sustain themselves, rich have gone richer, most big-shot corporate/lobby people are in the cabinet.
Lastly, no you are not offensive. respect to you, but also a request - do what you truly believe in - stand for the country, not for a party.
Later Finland Official statement was - We never said anything like this ever.
it is not about saying the right thing or as you said "politically correct", it is just saying real/true/honest/legit things. "results attained" - that phrase has a lot of cover-ups. I would request you to just see things around, the deficit has ballooned beyond control, climate accords have been thrown out, job numbers are high as people are working two-three jobs to sustain themselves, rich have gone richer, most big-shot corporate/lobby people are in the cabinet.
Lastly, no you are not offensive. respect to you, but also a request - do what you truly believe in - stand for the country, not for a party.
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baresken
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So far with what has been presented I don't feel Tru.mp will be impeached. This, for me, is not a debate, just my opinion. Let's see what the upcoming election tells us.
umm thing is "he is already impeached" he would not get "voted out"
Thing is if I say Baresken - you are not a good man. in a civil process, you would deny my allegations and bring forward 10 witnesses from your own group to be questioned. He already denied access to witnesses, if I am honest I would want more and more and more witnesses.
Heck, last week in Davos - he actually said "I have all the evidence, they have nothing"
Thing is if I say Baresken - you are not a good man. in a civil process, you would deny my allegations and bring forward 10 witnesses from your own group to be questioned. He already denied access to witnesses, if I am honest I would want more and more and more witnesses.
Heck, last week in Davos - he actually said "I have all the evidence, they have nothing"
If you really thought there was a chance the Republicans would do there job and defend the Constitution and the law you are truly naive. Of course he won't be convicted . McConnell is working with the Whitehouse during all this . This isn't a trial. Its a way for Republicans to further their plan of minority rule and keep their jobs in Congress.
Sure I don’t mind as long as I know what is going on.
Yeah well that’s is because we have low quality politicians running for office. Even democrats have issues. I wish we had new kind of politicians. Bernie is kinda new, though I am not in agreeing with everything he says. I wish some new people would run that would actually do something.