why was the american gov so "evil" during the cold war

I do not understand what you mean by behind the scenes facts. Also please explain how liberalism is the first step to communism. You might want to do some research on liberalism first. A quick Google search will show how liberalism has been around since the age of enlightenment. The US revolutionaires used liberal policies to gain their freedom.

Communism was first started by Karl Marx in 19th century.

If you do a little more digging you will find that not only is there a difference between socialism and communism, but you are making the same mistake many others have made and I corrected. Socialism is the direct opposition of capitalism and not communism.
 
I have the feeling what ever I post will automatically be rejected because of the almost immediate degrneration into name calling.

So what I will put forward is what to do your own search for.

Look at what happens in the countries since 1900, although you could go back annoy 2500 years, that fully adopted a left wing marxist, sociakist, libreal philosophy. especially those who promised the workers, since that is where the revolutions got the strength to come to power, a European and equal society.
 
SAB the definition of socialism, liberalism and such is of you look at history rarely what happens.

As far as "behind the scenes" I believe you are referring to the Social Secuirty comments. History again shows that what FDR sold us was never what was intended.
 
Vietnam is socialist or commmunist in name only. Much like China. where the leaders espouse equality, unity, and such getting fat like all politicians do off the taxes and kick backs. While letting the general populace fend for themselves in a very capitalistic manner. I've been to Vietnam and it's a fantastic place much like the rest of se asia.
 
CowboyDFW said:
I have the feeling what ever I post will automatically be rejected because of the almost immediate degrneration into name calling.

So what I will put forward is what to do your own search for.

Look at what happens in the countries since 1900, although you could go back annoy 2500 years, that fully adopted a left wing marxist, sociakist, libreal philosophy. especially those who promised the workers, since that is where the revolutions got the strength to come to power, a European and equal society.
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This is not evidence of anything. You have yet to explain how 3 very different political systems lead to each other. And 2500 years ago most government would not liberal, communist or socialist in any way whatsoever. You are just throwing shit against a wall and seeing what sticks. I'm done with you . I have better things to do than talk to brainwashed right wing fools , who haven't got a clue as to what they are talking about. Carry on with your idiot beliefs that you can't justify or explain. Your stupidity was entertaining for a bit though lol
 
Yeah, it's hard to understand what you're referring to when you simply tell us to look at the past 120 years. Give an example of liberalism becoming socialism becoming communism and how that was a necessary outcome of liberalism itself. P.S. liberalism is free markets and freedom of thought.
 
The American government were not evil during the Cold War in comparison to their Soviet or Maoist opponents.

Mao's Cultural Revolution led to the deaths of an estimated 20 million people.
Stalin's Great Purge an estimated 1.3million, 1.7million in the Gulags.
Cambodia's Khmer Rouge killed an estimated 2.2million, approximately 20% of the population.

Then there's the oppression and deaths in Cuba, Vietnam, Mozambique, North Korea.

Capitalism isn't perfect, but it doesn't systematically aim to kill people in achieving it's dominance in the way Communism does.
 
@Steg all -isms are the same

The difference is in Gini coefficient - Gini coefficient a measure of statistical dispersion intended to represent the income inequality. For generations, if you are on the right side of the curve, the systematic work of capitalism is invisible. -imperialist wars/genocides as well as deaths due to easily preventable poverty/malnutrition/lack of access to health care/preventable food shortages/ slavery - most were a by-product of capitalism. British Empire across the world was a capitalist trade, Slavery was labour/human trade, it was under trade Britishers got power over India, China, Africa, how many died in Great Depression?- all was done with an ambition to make money for few. To keep gears of "progress" rolling.

Not for a moment, I am supporting communist oppression. however, the smiling silent killer is more potent. Following are some good reads.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jul/26/communists-capitalism-stalinism-economic-model
https://medium.com/@comradefinnegan/socialism-vs-capitalism-death-toll-d19b6187444c
 
@Pinguu a valid point, well made, about Capitalism, particularly the earlier years of its development. It really does have some dark periods in the name of 'progress'.

My comparison was during the period of the Cold War, as per the title of the thread. America and by association other Western democratic capitalist states, were in no way as evil in comparison to their ideological opponents during the Cold War, Communism

As Churchill said in 1947 as the Iron Curtain began to fall, '...democracy is the worst form of Government except for all those other forms that have been tried...'
 
@Steg - again I am with you, without open markets there would be no globalisation or freedom of movement. However, I still do not think crimes of capitalism were in past, most of the recent wars in the name of oil or minerals, supplying of rebel forces to overthrow governments, arms-race, obesity in one corner and starvation in other, 90% of the wealth in hands of the 10%, too are results of capitalism.

In academics we had a discussion, what would you rather be born in - a) a country where all were equal in wealth, though all being middle-income nations. or b) super-rich in an unequal country. There were many interesting viewpoints. Somewhere not rejecting any "ism" and not accepting any "ism" in totality is the way forward.

If you think of these "isms" were made by social scientists and economists of the 19th century while looking at the problems of the 18th century. How can they then give a solution to the challenges in the 21st century?

Norway is seen as one of the few countries on a very awesome Gini Coefficient scale. And there are some lessons to learn from their actions. If you got 20 mins give the following a try -

"
"
 
Im surprised, since we're discussing the Cold War, no one has brought up the Soviet Afghanistan conflict. You know, the one where America supplied captured Russian military equipment to the Afghanis. And sent special forces operatives to train them in small unit ta tics, and guerrilla warfare. The people we have been calling terrorists for the last twenty years, they were called freedom fighters forty years ago. Im not saying we wouldn't be having the same problem with them hating us if we hadn't intervened back then. We kept them from becoming part of the Soviet block, but that army that we trained, we equipped, became just as ruthless. Just as totalitarian. The American government was directly responsible for Sadam Hussein gaining power. And that power went to his head. We trained a dog to fight, but we never trained it to know when it was appropriate to fight. And it turned and tried to bite the hand that had fed it.

Now, as far as democracy is concerned, we have a constitutional democracy, not a true democracy. In a true democracy, every vote counts. But we have the electoral college, which is, I think, one of the main issues with out political system. There are eleven states, out of fifty, that account for 269 electoral votes, it only takes 270 to win. If that isn't unbalanced, I don't know what is. And presidents have won the election, despite not having the majority of the population vote for them. Four times. 1876, 1888, 2000, and 2016. The majority of the American population wanted the person who lost. Because the system is broken and outdated. The electoral college is a broken, and outdated system. Change my mind. And thus ends my rant.
 
xxxtotalwhorexxx said:
from napalming korean and vietnam civilians to funding the muja hidean and breaking their promise causing 9/11 and plotting to bomb miami and blame castro

where these acts justified
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Back in 1988 when I was 10 we lived in Nashville Tennessee and twice a month we did what we was told was tornado drills. But them wasn't no motherfucking tornado drills, they was nuclear bomb drills. It wasn't until 91 or 92 when kids my age was getting into our teenage year's and seen Pantera playing at the Monster's of Rock Festival in Moscow that the the middle and youngest half of gen X finally realized that the kids at that concert was just like us. The only difference is they was wanting the same freedom that we "kinda" had here in the states.

Like everything else in my generations life the cold war was just another crock of shit.
 
Dcdevon said:
I don't believe the U.S government ever bombed Miami. And I'm not sure napalm was used during the Korean war. But the U.S did do questionable and sometimes outright wrong things. But so did the Axis powers so if you are going to call out one you should call out the other. The cold war was a messy but necessary thing at the time. It was much better than actual war between the U.S and NATO vs the Axis. As far as justification that isn't a black or white question really. So I can't give a definitive answer. Best I can say is some cases yes some cases no.
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yes napalm was used in Korean war and US supported Franco in Spain and the Greek monarcho-fascist in the Greek Civil war (46-49) where napalm was first used on civilians...
 
OhLongJohnson said:
Back in 1988 when I was 10 we lived in Nashville Tennessee and twice a month we did what we was told was tornado drills. But them wasn't no motherfucking tornado drills, they was nuclear bomb drills. It wasn't until 91 or 92 when kids my age was getting into our teenage year's and seen Pantera playing at the Monster's of Rock Festival in Moscow that the the middle and youngest half of gen X finally realized that the kids at that concert was just like us. The only difference is they was wanting the same freedom that we "kinda" had here in the states.

Like everything else in my generations life the cold war was just another crock of shit.
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Let me tell you friend, like someone born in ex socialist state from a generation which had no saying in this issue... yeah man, we got the "freedom" u had, we can stay without health insurence, pension benefits, living in a house owned by someone else... but if you ask my generation, we would have chosen the freedom my parents had, to have free healthcare, job that actually makes a living, own your own house, not to think if u'll be on the streets id you'll lose your job... yeah, a great freedom man, for 1/10 of society to own our lives, and we to be their tools for profits... thanks for the freedom we got from the US...
I don't know if u really have idea how people lived in those countries and how they live now... don't write stories u've heard in US media, they r not reality... our people got nothing, they lost their freedom won in their struggles... let me tell u what kind of freedom people had in those societies... I remember we started to lock the doors at the end of the 90s... in the whole neighbourhood there were no doors locked, no one was afraid that someone will rob them... people lived relaxed lives, they had lives, could spent time together... that was the freedom we lost during the break up of Yugoslavia...
 
CowboyDFW said:
If you don't understand that liberalism is the first step to socialism which is the bus stop to communism you aren't paying attention or youre deliberately being obtuse to save your ego.


Go read some history history.
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Oh fuck this is sooooo not correct... man liberalism is based on private ownership of means of production, that is the core of it, that is why has individualist approach... socialism on the contrary is based on the fact that private ownership should be ended. They represent opposite class interest in society, they r not just not connected but the one excludes the other... with liberalism you can't have socialism!
 
Dcdevon said:
Were is your evidence that communism and socialism are left wing ? Were is your evidence to back what you say about Biden ?
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Man, socialism and communism ARE LEFT WING, Bide is not...
You there in the US are obsessed with communism and socialism although have no idea what it is... let me tell u man... The SA units of the Nazi party were formed to fight communism and Poppycock come to power to stop the Communist Party in Germany, as reaction to the working class struggle... is not "the same totalitarianism"...
Do some research on socialism don't trust the ideology of the Cold War US...
 
The nazis were the socialist workers party. They were only slightly less radical than the communists they opppsed in the 1920s, same goes for the italians then.

Compare the post wwi 1920s of europe you the post wwi 1920s of the us. europe was already in depression, where add the us had the greatest economic boom in human history, granted hoover advised by fdr screwed that up, but that's more left wing policies for you.

I doing know where you came from, but im glad you have and had a good life,
 
CowboyDFW said:
The nazis were the socialist workers party. They were only slightly less radical than the communists they opppsed in the 1920s, same goes for the italians then.

Compare the post wwi 1920s of europe you the post wwi 1920s of the us. europe was already in depression, where add the us had the greatest economic boom in human history, granted hoover advised by fdr screwed that up, but that's more left wing policies for you.

I doing know where you came from, but im glad you have and had a good life,
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No, the Nazis were not socialist party, also the Fascist... if u look at their program they had quite right wing program, never fought for ending capitalism and the Nazis had process of privatization. The "socialism" of the Nazis is "socialism" of Bismark, or as he claims "socialism of the nation" which is actually not socialism but a way how to fight socialists...

"State Socialism (German: Staatssozialismus) was a set of social programmes implemented in the German Empire that were initiated by Otto von Bismarck in 1883 as remedial measures to appease the working class and detract support for socialism and the Social Democratic Party of Germany following earlier attempts to achieve the same objective through Bismarck's Anti-Socialist Laws." Wikipedia
This is the time when Engels was still alive and worked with the Social Democratic Party of Germany...

Nazism and Fascism are right wing ideologies, they had right wing economic policies and were created to fight the working class. Is not that they were lass "radical" than communist is that they were the total oposit of communist on all questions. Their military units were formed from army generals from WWI who had supported the king in Germany, they were part of actions of the police to break strikes and worker's commities in Germany and Italy... not eeven to mention Franco
 
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