or u r troll or stupid, I said that the left is not the same as communist, but communism is left wing politics... is not that complex what i said
why was the american gov so "evil" during the cold war
- Thread starter xxxtotalwhorexxx
- Start date
You are right what you said isn't complex. It's stupid. See we agree on something.
Is not complex, but u seem not to understand... something is wrong... maybe ur ability to understand... guess u need some other help friend... Tschus und auviedersehn
I understand you are a fool.
I think loverofsluts69 is simply stating that today's US liberals are not leftists in the historical sense. Yes, many US people consider liberals and Democrats to be "on the left", but their policies aren't even real reform, just pretending to address the ills of capitalism. The real left, the socialists, communists, unions, the labor movement and civil rights movement, demand real reform and real democracy, taking power from the bosses and letting people decide what happens in their communities. In that sense, Democrats aren't leftists, they're conservatives, albeit a different flavor from the Republicans. Dems are the good cops, Repubs the bad cops. They're all cops in this police state.
No he didn't.He just spouted a bunch of bullshit about a political system he doesn't understand. His whole point is spreading communist propaganda.The fact he thinks life was better in communist Yugoslavia is proof of that. Only a brainwashed idiot would think oppression and an actual police state was ' freedom' . His point wasn't an actual opinion or critique of American government. It is an endorsement of communism.
Last edited:
Pictures always make things better
This one shows where those who were running for presidency in the US 2020 election are with their policies
This one shows where those who were running for presidency in the US 2020 election are with their policies
You seem not to have even idea what my point was, I never said that there was no police state in Yugoslavia. I reply on a comment that stated the people in USSR just wanted the freedom US had. I simply claimed that US had no such "freedom". Freedom in the abstract has no meaning, is just liberal abstraction, freedom is concrete thing, can be freedom from and freedom to, there is no absolute freedom as the liberal ideal. What freedom did US had that the youth in USSR wanted? Freedom of expression? The whole history of rock 'n' roll is history of censorship, Twisted Sister were on trial because of songs... freedom of expression... writers were not allowed to write screenplays in Hollywood just because they were communist, communist and anarchist were imprisoned just for being what they are, Fred Hampton was murdered in his bed because he was communist... What means freedom without the context of for and from what? Freedom to own automatic gun? Freedom to shot someone on your property? Freedom is concrete not abstract thing, that is what I say.
I never claimed that Yugoslavia was "free" but don't tell me that the US is not police state also... the US has more imprisoned people currently (mostly people of color and poor people) than Stalin's USSR. Kalief Browder was held at the Rikers Island jail complex, without trial for 3 years of which 2 in solitary confinement. What is that if not police state?
I don't fully understand the American political system, but lets face it, you also don't understand the political system of USSR or Yugolsavia, nor socialism or communism, but claim to understand what it is. I bet you think there were no elections in Yugoslavia, but there were... https:// en.wikipedia.org /wiki /Elections_in_Yugoslavia see for yourself... when it comes to Yugoslavia or the USSR I just simply state that things were more complex than the ideological position of "It was just totalitarian police state that murdered people" from the Cold War. Every state is police state, states are based on the armed bodies which have legal authority on violence, state is oppression and violence by default, it's not characteristic only of workers states. Is ideological idea to think that state can be free, is abstraction of freedom and abstraction of the state.
I have no idea if life in US was better than in Yugoslavia, maybe, maybe not, but you also don't know that. But what we can freely say is that Yugoslavia had no colonial politics to the 3 World and never engaged in wars for profits in any country.
When it comes to the point if life was better in Yugoslavia than in the current states, Is not just my opinion, a research done in 2011 found that 81% of the people think life was better in Yugoslavia. Research done in Russia found that 75% of people think life was better in USSR. Do you claim that the whole nations are brainwashed idiots? You might not like it, but that is what actually people think. Your position ignores the experience of those people, is colonial mindset of the master to the slave: "You are ignorant I know better than all of you what is best for you."
I'm a communist, what a mystery you revealed... communist never hide what they are, unlike liberals who claim to be anti-racist and anti-islamophobic (like Biden) but when it comes to Palestine, the support "the right" of Israel do defend from terorism by ethnic cleansing in Gaza.
Last edited:
As a communist nothing you say regarding our political system is without spin or lies. So nothing you say has any merit .You are simply repeating the same propaganda you have been told to repeat . It's all bullshit .You didn't have a point .Just an communist agenda .But if communism in Yugoslavia was so great how come it no longer exists as a country? Our political system isn't perfect . But our country has survived a 4 year and counting attack on our system.We still exist .Yugoslavia does not.
Last edited:
This just shows how much ideological position is yours... I wasn't born a communist, communists are not born communist, I become communist by researching history and current political events. Is stupid to think that I have agenda on a stupid forum, how will I destroy American political system, by posting comments? This just shows that u still have the Cold War mindset... whos agent am I? The imaginary enemy does't exist more than 30 years... you can think I'm someones agent, and repeat Cold War propaganda, but my friend, u actually are dehumanising me, for you I'm not a human, I'm just someones tool for the destruction of the USA... how is that different than Rudeman's racist politics to Mexican people or to Muslims? At this moment your "love of freedom" fails apart... but this reflects your own fear to question your own ideology, not mine. If you are sure that USA is free, than why you need to discredit things I say because I'm communist? You are so scared that just the possibility that what I say might be true forces you in Cold War ideological reflecs as if the USSR and Yugoslavia have just landed their armies on US soil...
The argument that something last for ages so must be good is no argument, the Roman Empire lasted for centuries, doesn't that means that it wasn't oppressive...
There was no communism anywhere on the fucken planet, don't repeat Cold War propaganda, think with your mind not with the CIA nonsense...
Because you think with Cold War mindset, just to inform you communist hate Smurf.
Yugoslavia was destroyed by nationalist and chlero-fascist which did war crimes man, your argument of why doesn't exist doesn't go. The same people which destroyed SFRY in a bloody war were not democratic liberals which "freed" the countries, but armed nationalists that did ethnic cleansing, genocide and rape. The same political currents that collaborated with the Nazis, Chetniks, Ustasha, IMRO and Domobran units, don't trust me? Check, they have declared Nazi collaborators for victims of communism like Draza Mihajlovic leadr of the Chetnik movement which murdered civilians in Bosnia, Ustasha that held concentration camp Jasenovac for Serbs.
I don't have a cold war mindset .I never bought into American propaganda about communism. Everything you have said about the American left and the links you tried to establish between it and communism and all the information you posted to try and prove your point is the same shit the U.S.S..R said . And some of them are talking points the Chinese still use today.You are repeating what communists have said for the last 80 years .None of it is an original thought you had .I don't have an argument as for why Yugoslavia collapsed .But it's obvious communism wasn't a strong enough form of government to hold it together. It like most communist states fell.And the ones that are doing well bow like China have adopted some capitalist economic policies . Communism is shit as a form of government.And will never work as Marx intended .Of the 5 communist countries left in the world Marx wouldn't recognize his manifesto at work in any of them. Those 5 countries use communism as a form of authoritarianism control.The idea of spreading a great form of government is gone .When China goes to Africa they aren't spreading communism.They are spreading their capitalist market system. No ruling political parties even believe that crap anymore. Just fake ass ' revolutionaries' like you .
Last edited:
See, this is why I say you have Cold War mentality and you don't understand what I say... Which are the 5 communist countries in the World now? Which were the communist countries in the past? They were all communist states just in the word of the Western governments. Communism has nothing to do with form of government, communist society is stateless society since Marx and Engels. Engels in "Origin of the Family, State and Private Property" analyse the state as it forms together with class society and should disapear in classless society (or how he and Marx call it communist or socialist society). The state is class aparathus , you can't have classless state. Socialism and communism never had anything to to with form of government. The only government Marx, Engels, Lenin and Trotsky speak is the transition from capitalist to socialist society which is working class government that lasts only to the point when all that is left from the class society exists. Only in the USA socialism and communism are defined like forms of a government, since the beggining of communist thought, since the social utopians before Marx, only US liberals and conservatives (during Cold War) have defined communism and socialism as form of government. That is why I say u have Cold War mentality, find and read what communists have written about communism, socialism, USSR, China... Socialism is a whole different system, not just different form of government. The problem with defining socialism as more state controll and capitalism more free market is that capitalism is not just regulation it is a whole system from the way how we produce product to the relations in production even Family, is not that simple. You can regulate economy, but by regulation you can't end commodity production.
You are approaching communism like communism is the foreign policy of the USSR and China and not a movement with history and thought that lasted from before the USSR, 19 centurie till today. Claiming that part of the left in US is communist doesn't mean that the are agents of China or USSR, that is Cold War mentality. The question is which left in USA, liberals? You are absolutly right, communism has no connection to them, but the question is if they are left wing... I can name you 16 Trotskyist internationals that have organizations in the USA and that declare themself communist...
China has nothing to do with communism, the thing that China has regulated economy don't make China socialist or communist, as i said communism is not form of government but society. Most of the EU countries have nationalized industries, they are not communist.
Yes communism can work like Marx intended to, because Marx never wrote how communism should work in his whole life. He only wrote that communism will be classless society after the class contradictions will end. Marx deals with capitalism, why is exploitative, oppressive, how it exploits, how profits are created by the surplus value labor creates, and why capitalism will end at some point and how it could be ended. Marx was not a prophet nor had crystal ball to predict the future, he was a social scientist who knew that u can't predict future. Not only Marx, Lenin also doesn't write how communism will function, nor Trotsky... your whole understanding of what Marx wrote, what is communism is based on state propaganda about Marx and communism...
You don't need to tell me how wrong had the USSR (or China, or Yugoslavia) gone, my friend, my political line was formed in the gulags in Siberia, Trotsky was exiled and murdered in Mexico for claiming that the USSR was not socialist but degenerated worker's state in which the bureaucracy ruled in their own interest. My political movement was formed by the purges in the Communist International from the Left Opposition. I know well how bad have things gone, as I know that Stalinist as not Bolsheviks, Lenin himself denounced Stalin in his Letter to the 23 Congress... But no matter how bad had Yugoslavia went, it had more basic human dignity for workers, you could not die from hunger in SFRY, you could not end on the street if you lost your job or got sick, in fact usually you could not lose your job, you could quit your job. If you lost your job, you would get 24 month selaries and social benefits. People were not rich, but they were not poor as they are now. You can't neglect those aspect of life in Yugoslavia. You could change the Manager if is an asshole by voting for him to be changed. I don't think there is, or have been job in USA, or any other capitalist state (including the Yugoslav now) where if your Manager is an asshole u could say to him to fuck himself without being in some way punished. This is less stress in the everyday life, u can't ignore that by simply saying: "communism is bad"
Communism is dead . The world has moved on. A classless society sounds nice but human nature will never let that happen.That is why communism has never worked and never will. I believe in theory and on paper it sounds great. But after all this time , and all the countries that have tried it it doesn't and never has worked . There will always be those that want more .And power will always corrupt some .Human nature is what it is and nothing will change that .Now that isn't to say people can not do better and that our societies can not do better but communism isn't the way to go about it. And I don't say that because of a cold war mindset .I say that because in more than a hundred years it has failed every time.
This is why I'm communist, simply... human nature is not fixed thing, is not pregiven, it exist only in context of social relations, this is the "nature" of humans living in class society, not to any humanity. In history there were societies which were classless and based on cooperation, so human nature is not determined by something static, let's just remember that evolution is transformation, we are products of transformation. Desire is socially constructed it depends on the relations in society.
We actually produce enough to feed all hungry people, and not just to feed them, but all to live life of human dignity. We have the technology to automize most of the jubs and to cut the working day to at least 6 hours, and have full employment. Why doesn't that happen? Because you have 10% of humanity who own thing and accumulate capital they can't even spent, as you have hungry people. The system has no base in nature, is based on the idea that you can own means of production which should be used for human gain, not for profit.
I can't accept that the only possible future for humanity is that of exploitation and oppression, is defeatist approach to humanity, like humanity is destined to suffer...
Like I said it sounds good in theory .But it wasn't the politburo standing in bread lines .Or the heads of the Stasi, KGB etc . There were social classes in communist countries. They may not have been based on wealth but they existed just the same.
They were not classes , they were layers of bureaucracy, and as I said there was no communist countries, only workers states, as on theory, look at Trotsky's works and you'll see if Marxist theory is just theory or he even predicted the development of the USSR and it's collapse... the work is called "The Revolution Betrayed"...
Bullshit like everything else you have said.If a group of people are better off because they work for the state they are a class. If the leaders eat well and the workers stand in line for food they are not equal . You have drank so much kool aid you most piss red .
The government of the former Yugoslavia and Russia , E.Germany etc seem to actually have had a form of state sponsored capitalism. And you yourself say they where not actually communist countries. But you also claim that there were no classes in these countries. So which is it ? Were they classless communist countries or not actually communist? And if you benefit more because of your position in the state how is that not a form of class?Actually it appears Yugoslavia went to a market based economy.So I stand corrected. But a market based economy isn't very communist now is it ?
Last edited:
So you wise one are without bias? Sounds like a liberal Democrat to me.
Just acknowledge the point: US mass incarceration doesn't indicate much freedom, right? And wars in Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, not to mention covert operations, is the US really about freedom? Who's spreading imperialist propaganda here? The liberal Democrat.
