And here you are saying I am wrong for using the term communist to describe these countries But today you say those countries were communist. You also draw a distinction between communism and socialism. But now you claim they are the same .
why was the american gov so "evil" during the cold war
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I did not put words in your mouth at all. I can't quote you because indirectly saying something is not saying it. I never asked you to quote me where I said I read Marx when you assumed I did. I was just stating an analogy of how archaic your thinking is. When slavery was legal and common, slaves were commodity as in the they were seen as objects and not as people. If you use that same thinking today you would be labeled as being pro slavery. If you run a company and you hire a person to create a product for you; then you are paying them to create a commodity which is the product. You are not purchasing the labour you are simply renting it just like the Chinese do with land. They rent land to the people.
Yes lots of countries in the U.N. have done and will continue to commit atrocities. That is how people are. The U.N. Puts sanctions on those countries and penalizes them. The same with the International Labour Organization. Let's play Devils advocate here shall we? You are 100 percent for commodification of labour. Commodification of labour states it must be made by human labour. Now what if something is created by robots? Is it still a commodity? It is still labor. My point in all this is your way of thinking is outdated. End of discussion
Yes lots of countries in the U.N. have done and will continue to commit atrocities. That is how people are. The U.N. Puts sanctions on those countries and penalizes them. The same with the International Labour Organization. Let's play Devils advocate here shall we? You are 100 percent for commodification of labour. Commodification of labour states it must be made by human labour. Now what if something is created by robots? Is it still a commodity? It is still labor. My point in all this is your way of thinking is outdated. End of discussion
In what you quote I say they were not communist, how have you cocnclued that I say the were communist?
I say they defined them as socialist not communist in what you quote me actually... I don't use the term "socialist", I use "real-socialist" since it has different meaning, it means what Stalinist defined as "socialism" after 1927... is not that complex, only to you since your notion of Marxism is liberal bullshit and CIA propaganda... anyone who had read little of Marxist tought would know what I'm refering to...
Again, I never said they were communist, nor they were socialist, I said the were workers states, degenerated of deformed... but ok, I'm fraud, wannabe and a poser, and you "Grand Master of Marxism"... strange how liberals and Stalinists agree on that for Trotsysts... it seems you can't understand dialectics both so for you there is no possibility that those states were not capitalist and not socialist at the same time, so it creates confusion in you...
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I never said people were objects, on the contrary, I said that people were not objects in capitalism... but that doesn't maen thay can't be objectivized since is not legal. By your logic womwn can't be objectivized since is not legal so women are not oppressed... it is bullshit of formalistic nature, "since the law don't allow, it doesn't exist"... I bet you think that trade with women don't exist since is not allowed... typical ideological nonsense...
To commodify people is not the same as to commodify labouring power... you said it your self, "you are simply renting it" but if it is not commodity how can you rent it, is not tangeble like land, right? I don't understand but there are two possibilities, ether you say you can buy or rent laboring power, which means it is something you buy on market and you use like commodity although is not tangeble, or you say you rent the human, which is objectivization of humans in similar way like slavery... understanding humans as labour proves that yours views (based on Poppers) are not so contemporary, but as you say "archaic" since they can't understand labour is activity not body, its just afirmaion on the "natural order of things" from feudalism since it shows that you consider labour only as group of people who are destined to do it like feudal peasants and artstocracy. Commodity is commodity when is sold, if you grow tomatoes in your garden to eat them they are goods, but not commodity. Commodity don't exist outside of the commodity production, or porducing goods to be sold.
Here is definition of Commodity: "A commodity is a basic good used in commerce that is interchangeable with other goods of the same type. Commodities are most often used as inputs in the production of other goods or services." so labouring power is bought and sold on market as input in production of goods and services. You as it seems don't understand difference between labour and human which proves your feudal vision on the world and people since serfdom is based on the same notion.
You don't even seem to make difference between worker and robot... just another point in the feudal aproach to the workforce (not strange, it looks like you see workers from Popper's social position). Robot is not human, robots are not independent, robots are just machines, same as any older machines. Even AI scientists claim that AI can't take place of humans since basically is calculator, a complex calculator which calculates possibilities and based on data solves problems. AI is not human brain is not inteligent, without data can't solve problems. Robots are soficticated tools which are used in production by workers, they don't produce by them self as humans do. So even in production where you have robots the products are products of the human labour which manages the robots like any other tools.
But AI has already taken over many work that people have done in the past. Here is a list of work that AI have already taken over: assembly line and factory work, bus driver, taxi driver, truck driver, phone operators, telemarketers, receptionists, bank tellers and clerks, packing, stcoking, and warehouse movers, pharmacy technicians, information gathering, analysts, researchers, journalists and reporters, pilots, bartenders, stock traders, postal workers, doctors, anasthesiologists, surgeons, soldiers, guards, travel agents, chefs, cooks, bomb squad, typists, switchboard operators, bowling ball pinsetter, film projectionists, hotel staff and room service.
That right there is a long list. There even is a website that shows you a percentage of how likely or unlikely it is for a robot to take over your job. So you saying that robots will not take over jobs is archaic and feudal in itself.
That right there is a long list. There even is a website that shows you a percentage of how likely or unlikely it is for a robot to take over your job. So you saying that robots will not take over jobs is archaic and feudal in itself.
I am not confused you are just full of shit.
Fuck dude you don't know what you are referring to. And no it's not complex but you seem incapable of remembering what you say at any one time. You are literally looking up and quoting dead commies as you post .Which is why you keep contradicting yourself.You are just a wannabe who thinks being a fake ass communist is cool and might get you laid with coeds going through their 'Fuck capitalism ' phase .Before they graduate and become good little capitalists themselves .Haha
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I am getting tired of this merry go round. Liberal capitalists, try persuading without name calling, bullshit logic, and fear mongering. My liberal capitalist bro in law just justified US arms sales to Saudi by saying "you have to admit, the US does really well maintaining the status quo" as if that's a good thing. I guess fuck Yemen then right? Capitalist dogma is tired and has nothing to offer but more and more centralized power for capital.
I have no desire to persuade anyone of anything. Yes unfortunately fuck Yemen .I don't agree with it but despite their faults the Saudis are our allies .And I am sure we get a lot of information from their intelligence service. I would like to see arms sales to them tied to their behavior just like I would like to see arms sales and aid to Israel tied to their behavior. But that isn't what is happening.The world isn't as simple as black and white there is plenty of grey. And although it is ok to feel a certain way sometimes things happen and people get fucked. But you don't seem to care about the millions who got fucked by brutal communist governments , including their own citizens .So take your holier than thou fake sentiments and shove them up your ass. You don't actually care about the Yemenis you just want to virtue signal .
China kills and tortures Falon Gong practitioners and is ethnicity cleansing it's Muslim minority but you are ok with that .N.Korean citizens are jailed for not crying enough during Kim's grandfather's birthday but that is ok. They are infested with worms and right now are on the verge of a serious lack of food but that is ok.Sweat shops in Vietnam and Laos that feed our capitalist demand for cheap goods that is ok too huh? But you have the nerve to try and talk about dead Yemenis? GTFOH with that bull shit child .
I didn't said that robots won't take jobs, on contrary I'm for full automisation... I said that AI is produced by humans not independent... so your argumentation is nothing...
"There even is a website that shows you a percentage of how likely or unlikely it is for a robot to take over your job." There are even websites that can make your picture into nude, it doesn't mean is your nude... this is childish thinking sorry not scientific argument...
This is the last thing I'm gonna comment... Is not ok if the enemy puts in prison people, but if Israel does ethnic cleansing you would like to see arms sold to them with a promise... maybe you think they should have also kindly ask Poppycock not to have concenration cams...
China is not communist, nor North Korea...
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Says the guy who thinks Tito a man responsible for 500' 000 deaths is just great .You can GTFOH with your false morality as well. You and the kid are both hypocritical pseudo communists who although you complain about capitalism both benefit from it. Especially the American .He benefits everyday from the actions of our government. Actions that he claims to oppose but he loves the benefits of those actions .And since you claim to be with an international company that has operations in America so do you. So you both are full of it.
Sure we benefit on our workplace, working more and more hours for less and less... OK BOOMER... I didn't said Tito was great... I didn't said I'm in international company, I'm in international socialist organisation. But actually this just proves how stupid you are in understanding who benefits... we are not those who have the profits, and your stupidity is moralization, "If you don't like capitalism die" that is what it means, but sorry to inform you, we have no plan to die, is capitalism's turn to die... kisses and regards...
I am not a boomer lol. International Socialist Organization. So basically a bunch of jackoffs who sit around drinking beer and bitching about ' capitalist pigs' while the beer they drink and food they eat all are a product of the same system they cry about . Ok Comrade you are going to change the world I get it. And you are going to do it listening to a soundtrack playing on your earbuds that you have because of the very system you want ro bring down. Or do you ?
Sure, before capitalism people did no eat an drink, thank you capitalism for inventing beer and food... I'm sorry to inform you, this world has existed before capitalism and will exist after capitalism, the end of capitalism is not the end of the world, like you, this world will exist with or without you or me, don't be narcistic, nor you nor capitalism are the center of the solar system, the sun is... so yeas you are boomer... spoiled one, like all boomers... also, sorry to inform you, you are not capitalism, you are stupid worker who thinks that he benefits from capitalism...
Your argument is extra stupid, no one asked me if I want to be born in a capitalist society, is not choice, is stupid to moralize if I live in capitalism, work, eat or whatever in capitalism... I also work in capitalism and make profits for the assholes... your mind is twisted, for you benefits are to eat and drink, like people should be in poverty in 21 century when we produce enough to feed all people, when Europe only wastes food enough to feed Africa... for me to have more than enough food and drink is basic human dignity, you should not worry if the next day you will have food... benefits of capitalism my ass... benefits of human labour they are, same as the profits of the parasite class, the capitalists, they should work too so to be little productive and to deserve what they eat... to say do not complain because you benefit from capitalism to workers is the same as to say to gay person that he should not complain about the system because he benefits from heterosexuality because he was born from it... you don't fight for freedom, you fight for the "freedom" to oppress and exploit...
Your argument is extra stupid, no one asked me if I want to be born in a capitalist society, is not choice, is stupid to moralize if I live in capitalism, work, eat or whatever in capitalism... I also work in capitalism and make profits for the assholes... your mind is twisted, for you benefits are to eat and drink, like people should be in poverty in 21 century when we produce enough to feed all people, when Europe only wastes food enough to feed Africa... for me to have more than enough food and drink is basic human dignity, you should not worry if the next day you will have food... benefits of capitalism my ass... benefits of human labour they are, same as the profits of the parasite class, the capitalists, they should work too so to be little productive and to deserve what they eat... to say do not complain because you benefit from capitalism to workers is the same as to say to gay person that he should not complain about the system because he benefits from heterosexuality because he was born from it... you don't fight for freedom, you fight for the "freedom" to oppress and exploit...
Haha why don't you put all this in your manifesto. Of course beer and food existed before capitalism but the food you eat and beer you drink come from the capitalist system.That system is literally how you get everything you have. You are a hypocrite But hey do you Comrade. I don't fight for freedom.I sell plants and associated products for 'The Man' to further capitalism .And oppress the poor. So capitalism is going to fall huh? That has been said for more than 100 years .And it still exists while the majority of those who were sure it would fall are dead. And the majority of the government's founded on communist principal adopted capitalism in one form or another. But it will fall soon sure man.
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