And stop pretending you're Free. Your government currently controls every aspect of your life and knows exactly what you doing almost at every single point, where you go, who you speak to, what you write on the Internet, what you search, what you watch, how you spend your money. EVERYTHING. You are not Free. If they can find Osama Bin Laden in a house in a completely different country that they were destroying then they sure as hell know how to find you. They already have you brainwashed into believing that everything currently in place is the best it can be even in the face of cold hard evidence. Free my mother fucking ass.
I make my life better !! That is my responsibility !! Not the Government 's responsibility !! And to be honest it is not your Government's responsibility !! It is your responsibility !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Head buried in the sand? Lol. OK Mr Free. You keep paying your over priced medical premiums and buying your guns because it grants you freedom whilst the government erodes every last privacy and choice you have left. And I'm the one with my head buried in the sand? Pfft.
These things are happening today all around you and you refuse to believe it will ever happen there !! Yes your head is buried in the sand !! And i will fight for my right to privacy alone with my individual rights !! Which you yourself will easily give away !!
You'll fight for your privacy will you?? Yeah I think you missed the boat on that one my friend. You have no privacy. Im under no illusion what is going on and what may happen. I also know there are better ways of doing things, you see I actually think for myself rather than just believe what I'm told. I know I'm not free and that my life is under some control. But the things I'm arguing against I believe. I know the NHS is a fantastic system and I know their are politicians in power who would love for it to go to a paid private system, it's my duty to make sure they don't get into power. Again, you haven't actually said a bad word about America. You seemingly refuse to question the Constitution. The fact that you refuse to even question shows your head is buried far deeper than mine.
You are the one following the Government line , not me ; i believe in individual rights and responsibilities and freedoms . Feel free to follow the Government line like sheep being lead to the slaughter house !!
I'm following the line because I think that certain government systems are better? Lol Do you wear a tin foil hat? Or is the hole that your head goes into tin foil lined? You're no more free than me. Stop thinking you are.
Ahhh now we get into personal attacks all because i disagree with your view on government : how leftist of you !! Continue to follow that line .
Because you're talking shit. That's why. For example. Me and you have the same medical care available to us but you pay through the nose for yours and mine is available to me from the moment I am born till the moment I die at no extra cost at all and nothing restricted if its a genuine condition. Yet some how yours is better because the government isn't involved. I actually think we have a great system and praise it as such and I'm a sheep. How in the fuck have you come to that conclusion?
Man the sarcasm in this thread is thicc! More Gun Laws What more? We do background checks, waiting periods, training (in more anti gun states), for conceal carry there's interviews for even to be considered for a license. There is also fees, paperwork, ATF forms, you must have valid address (verifiable.), no felonies, no criminal record, and you need 2 references. In some states (most anti gun) only limit your choices to what is on their roster. Many states have strict travel laws, and even if the neighboring state doesn't the state next to it probably does. So I would like to know, what more gun laws do you want that we don't already have? Ban AR 15s cause they be scary looking? They did ban many rifles already. The AR 15 is the least of your worries honestly, you only see them used in crime more often because they are simply popular. If you saw criminals using old .22 pea shooters, for crimes would it make sense to just ban those because criminals use them? It's really simple. It was already admitted many times in this thread how more gun laws (which criminals dont give a fuck about anyway) will not stop the problem. Again, we have a cultural/societal problem--it's a people problem and the media and other countries like the media do us no good by spewing their bullshit about scary black rifles and neither do people that know very little about the firearm industry (which are often the loudest). "Assault Rifle" isn't a thing, it's a political term. If you've never been in a life threatening situation where a person is deciding your fate, you couldn't possibly understand why we train people to be mentally prepared and safe. You couldn't possibly understand why a 60 year old lady would come to me for training. Most gun owners are good people and will never harm you. And if a violent crime happens in front of them, those are the people that will defend you if necessary. Gun laws are merely making it harder for good people to choose to have a self defense option. So stop using that useless argument, you keep defusing it yourselves before we even need to and then you use it again, then again, and again. Higher Penalty for Gun Crimes What's the highest penalty you can pay? Death Penalty. Tell me, how often do criminals commit a crime, knowing full well it's going to cost them their freedom and or life if they get caught? Often. In fact so often that they don't even care anymore. Who it does deter from crime are usually just the normal every day people. That's how laws work. Laws are obeyed by law abiding people. A criminal committing a crime may passively think about the consequences, but if he is already acting, it matters little. Remember, the crime of a would be criminal with a gun isn't stealing candy from the drug store. It's violence. And if violence is already on the menu, a few laws aren't going to deter that person. Swap guns for knives or vehicles. If Knives are being used regularly by criminals (due to the lack of guns obviously) to kill more than 1 person--you have just revealed what your problem is. Ask, please, how often do Victims get sued by criminals? The very fact this happens, and the very fact that victims have been further victimized by a criminal despite their convicted crime shows, no matter the consequence, a lot of criminals could give a shit about the extra 20 years for robbing you, if they even get caught. This is assuming they are caught. If I break into your home, in your safe space gun free home--taking a weapon of any kind is going to likely secure my goal. I can almost bet you, regardless what the Law says, every criminal that breaks into your home to presumably rob your shit (either robbery or theft) he will have some sort of weapon on him. Bat, Stick, Knife, anything. Even if his intention was never to harm you, adrenaline during an encounter is fast and unpredictable. So while you sit in your imagined utopia of criminals obeying laws cause laws scare them more than guns apparently -- you will be down shit creek without a paddle--or a living chance rather. Yeah, the argument fails. Maybe nothing has happened to you, good for you, but shit does happen to people, and your lawyer written laws isn't going to prevent violence from falling on your lap for you to deal with. Just because people want to morally feel better doesn't make it a better outcome. It's self validation, "yes i pushed a law, that wont do shit but at least everyone knows i care more about people's lives than those gun nuts." That high horse pretentiously moral outlook is misguided. The NRA are a bunch of redneck idiots. Let me know how many active NRA members you've seen on the news committing a crime with their firearm, I'll wait. There's 5 million plus of us and many aren't rednecks. They at least encourage Minorities, (ethnic, sexual orientation etc) to protect themselves from people that would like to do them harm just because of the minority status. Ask, please, how many gays and trans women that have been trained safely. Why did they seek a self defensive firearm? Because their lives are threatened in some places far more than others. Nothing wrong with wanting protection from kidnap, rape, battery and unwanted advances. I encourage all especially in LGBTQ community to train to safely use firearms. If you're in Cali let me know, I can train you to be safe and not depend on others to protect you. Ban Guns Now if you are of the argument that goes something like, "well then ban guns, cause then they cant use them, they'll just use less dangerous weapons." (See first argument, but lets roll with it for the sake of this argument). Sure, UK is a great example of this isn't it? Not working so great though. See below. 22 fucking percent increase in knifings. In 1 fucking year. "Shocking statistics show incidents of stabbing have risen by 22 per cent in a year, with children as young as 13 among the victims" Guess what, you can't even try to take steps to prevent this. Your country took your right to defend yourself and you let them and said it's cool. Only thing next in their Mode of Operation is, "oh fuck, ban knives now." No More Mass Shootings At Least! Next argument, "well at least they aren't using bullets. Which means more lives are saved." Are you sure? Do you really understand the data? This is based on a large assumption that you are willing to promote: firearm violence is higher for crime than for defending. You may have less mass shootings sure. But compare it the lethal violence, not only whether it was gun or a rock or a knife. You're okay with shifting those deaths over to knifing deaths? Or you're just okay with it as long as it's not a scary black rifle? You are delusional if so. You are a hypocrite if you do not treat other commonly used weapons with more than 1 victim at a time the same manner. Have you bothered looking up how many lives are saved due to firearms? The sad truth is you will only get a fraction of the figure (even though it is a large figure actually), because many go unreported unlike a criminal's actions during a hot headline "mass shooting." That's just much more juicer to write about isn't it? So the rest of the world can look at America and say shit like, "im glad im not in America, they are stupid for their outdated 2 amendment." Yeah well we are glad our patriots aren't of that sort either. We are regular people though, and we have a common brotherhood with guys/gals/other just like us in other countries such as the UK. Just because this is the loudest rhetoric in the media right now, doesn't make it so. The proper way you stop a murderer with a gun, is with a fucking Gun. And you can't always wait around for a cop to show up (if they show up!). https://www.forbes.com/sites/paulhs...uld-include-how-guns-save-lives/#5c7a793b5edc
You may not be paying for your medical care ; but someone is . how is that fair or better to the one paying for your medical costs ?? Medical care is a service not an individual right!! It is not someone elses responsibility to pay for your medical costs !! It is yours ; at least it should be !!!
I have already told you how our medical care is paid for. By our tax. Infact, as DC has already posted we both have a similar tax system in which we pay into a pot that is used for benefits and what not. Just that some of that pot is put towards the health care system. And the reason it is fair is because at some point in my life I will need it as well. Most likely when I am older and retired. Such is life and becoming old. Why are you even arguing like this is a bad thing?? Please answer that before you go on some Star and Stripes sponsored rant. And as a British citizen, the NHS is a right to me. And of all the rights I'd like it is one we should have. World class medical health care > Guns
As far as socialist / capitalist systems go, I think that's just different thread lol. I dont think there is an absolute "better way" of doing your economy, but I prefer capitalism. I find capitalism creates innovation. Look at South Korea. Medical care is my responsibility just like protecting my own home and family is. I find no reason to have to pass that buck off to other tax. Make a budget.
Agreed. But both systems have their positives and negatives. You seem far more level headed. So why then? You're going to be taxed anyway why not have that tax go towards an extremely useful service?
I find the solution to be a reasonable solution dont get me wrong and I am clearly American. I am happy that your country is benefiting from it and are enjoying the way it is. I just tend find that not all solutions will work the same way in all countries no matter how democratic they want to be all together. I believe it's intellectually inexperienced to assume what works on country C will work on country A too. I think trying to make the Middle East democratic like the US is proof of that. Some country's logistics, politics and societal/cultural norms can be different enough that certain proposed solutions will not have the same effect -- could even make it worse. Also, your country is far older than ours. We are young. Maybe we are looked at as a young inexperienced child in the family--but we have proven ourselves faster than most I think. Within about 200 years we've come pretty far despite being young, especially in the areas of race, sex, and equality. Those things may rear their head in our society here and there but that's normal in any society. It is generally accepted that we all have equal rights and we keep showing that we want everyone to have equal rights and opportunities. There are other smaller countries that displayed this too -- quickly. But let's stick to the countries that are currently considered super powers--since they effect change and global outcomes the most. As for the taxes--because taxes do help people and keep our communities going, I gladly pay my taxes. But just because taxes help communities doesn't mean we should always say yes to them. Taxes is essentially loaning money to your government which you may or may not get back at all (not counting indirectly [possibly] benefiting from it.) Again, based on an assumption you will use it like everyone else. If you remain pretty healthy and require much less healthcare even as you retire (more likely due to your own fitness schedule which most dont have) then you will not use that money as much as say the guy next door eating poorly and not being active. So your money is blown to the greater good in this case to fit someone else' bill. What I wish all healthcare did is make it an incentive to remain healthy. You can eliminate many problems without medical care--but many don't. Especially in America. Only some insurances do and it is obvious why, they can make more off you if you are sick. So I get it. This is a fault of private insurance. But also a pro of it is, we have more options--and if we happen to budget our money well, we can have better health insurance. Of course then you are left with those that are low income. Should they have healthcare? Yes they should. But Ob .ama. care made you pay fees for not being able to afford insurance. That is what the "everyone needs healthcare" mentality brought us. I didn't have to worry though, because I have private insurance and it isn't the best--but it is far better than the government packages here currently. How do you help low income communities? Well I believe what we are doing now is the right direction, there are options but they need to be adjusted and fine tuned. Why force low income people to pay fees they cant even afford anyway? Should tax payers foot the bill for low income people? Maybe--for a period of time. I see this the same way I see assisted living. We are paying for someone elses household--on top of your own. This type of a tax is an expense, not a normal tax IMO. I pay taxes to fix roads, pay cops--you know the usual. Everyone benefits from this. The community benefits as a whole. But the community here will not benefit the same way handing out paid for health care especially when so many are by choice unhealthy anyway. See what I mean about not all solutions working for all cultures/countries? And this may be an acceptable and moral justification for you and that's cool. I personally like to keep my money with me to create more of it so I can afford to take care of myself. More taxes takes that out of your overall income, and calculating that annually comes to a fair amount of money you could have used better. Being taxed now or later matters if you are utilizing your current funds to make money. If you just let it sit in the bank, well I guess it's the same thing, since it's just sitting there. Right now in USA, Insurance is standardized by how much you are willing to pay. This might not be ideal, but it does bring benefits with it. Where as government controlled services, here in the USA are often lacking, a hassle, and stressful. We aren't in a socialist economy, so I especially don't see it as a solution for us. We can't put a piece of someone elses puzzle to fit our puzzle. We are a different set of pieces, and entirely different image too. Anyways, peace, I'm all debated out.
Thank you for the time and effort in that. Although there are some points I, surprisingly , disagree with its a well thought out different opinion that has a different angle to the whole debate.
