A question on U.K politics

Dcdevon

Dcdevon

Resident
FCN Regular
I find the UK political system interesting , bit of course do not understand everything that goes on and why being as that I'm in another country and all haha! So I have a question. If the beginning of the problem with carribian immigrants paperwork started when May was Home Secretary why did Rudd step down? Was it a matter of her falling on her sword for May and the party? Or did she do something herself that forced her to resign? I have googled the story but am interested in what ' the man ( or woman) on the ground has to say' .
 
The Guardian started a campaign and it published recently her deportation targets letters. The loss of May’s closest allies is a blow as she navigates the final years of negotiations ahead of Britain’s exit from the EU in March next year. I think the Parliament will debate today a petition calling for an amnesty for anyone who was a minor that arrived in Britain between 1948 to 1971, which will include the Windrush generation. Her statements about increasing the deportation with 10 percents was a good reason to resign and probably she will start to talk about many other delicate things soon, from a different position.
 
Vey said:
The Guardian started a campaign and it published recently her deportation targets letters. The loss of May’s closest allies is a blow as she navigates the final years of negotiations ahead of Britain’s exit from the EU in March next year. I think the Parliament will debate today a petition calling for an amnesty for anyone who was a minor that arrived in Britain between 1948 to 1971, which will include the Windrush generation. Her statements about increasing the deportation with 10 percents was a good reason to resign and probably she will start to talk about many other delicate things soon, from a different position.
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Ok that explains more than I found online. For instance I didn't get any stories from the Guardian, just her resignation from BBC. And the bit about Parliament is great. Hopefully at some point our pols will figure a fair solution. I'm going to try to keep an eye on it all. To see if her government holds. Thanks for the insight Vey!
 
Dcdevon said:
Ok that explains more than I found online. For instance I didn't get any stories from the Guardian, just her resignation from BBC. And the bit about Parliament is great. Hopefully at some point our pols will figure a fair solution. I'm going to try to keep an eye on it all. To see if her government holds. Thanks for the insight Vey!
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You know, the problem with the political jokes is that they get elected, you have the biggest joke there . Rudd's denials of targets was the best reason for her resignation. But, as you probably figured out, she's not the main artisan.
 
Vey said:
You know, the problem with the political jokes is that they get elected, you have the biggest joke there . Rudd's denials of targets was the best reason for her resignation. But, as you probably figured out, she's not the main artisan.
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Hell our whole system is a joke as a result of his election. I see it goes back way before her tenure yes. But she wouldn't have been forced to resign here because of it. Even before Tr.ump here she may have been able to stay on. I take it your not a fan of May.
 
Dcdevon said:
Hell our whole system is a joke as a result of his election. I see it goes back way before her tenure yes. But she wouldn't have been forced to resign here because of it. Even before Tr.ump here she may have been able to stay on. I take it your not a fan of May.
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I’m not a fan of Rudd either. But May is the architect of that 2014 migration policy if you remember it. 20 % of May’s second cabinet have quit their jobs since June 2017. Just keep in mind that British politics is a dysfunctional game , politicians and political journalists who live in each others pockets. If you’d know who's the author of The Guardian investigation, you might figure out sooner what happened. Not an excuse, just to be clear.
 
Vey said:
I’m not a fan of Rudd either. But May is the architect of that 2014 migration policy if you remember it. 20 % of May’s second cabinet have quit their jobs since June 2017. Just keep in mind that British politics is a dysfunctional game , politicians and political journalists who live in each others pockets. If you’d know who's the author of The Guardian investigation, you might figure out sooner what happened. Not an excuse, just to be clear.
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I remember with Blair as PM I think. That's why one of my questions was did she take the fall for May. I'm going to look into the author of the Guardian pieces and see how he relates to anything. It seems British politics has some similarities to American with similar players just operating in different systems .
 
But as of now we take the cake in dysfunction not that it's anything to be proud of. May has her faults but at least she doesn't have the emotional aptitude of a five year old. Not to make light of what's happening in the UK.
 
Dcdevon said:
I remember with Blair as PM I think. That's why one of my questions was did she take the fall for May. I'm going to look into the author of the Guardian pieces and see how he relates to anything. It seems British politics has some similarities to American with similar players just operating in different systems .
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These media similarities are everywhere, not only in UK and US :)
 
Dcdevon said:
But as of now we take the cake in dysfunction not that it's anything to be proud of. May has her faults but at least she doesn't have the emotional aptitude of a five year old. Not to make light of what's happening in the UK.
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Well, if we lie to the government it's a felony, but if they lie to us it's politics. It's an old "virtue" .
 
They say that if you want to avoid arguments, never discuss politics or religion.
I'm going to do it anyway.
There are literally less than a hands worth of politicians I respect, most see to be a self serving, let me see what I can get out of this type ... Imo.

With reference to the question asked, @Vey nails it. Seems like amber Rudd has taken the fall for the PM's decisions whilst she was in that role.
 
Silk-BG said:
They say that if you want to avoid arguments, never discuss politics or religion.
I'm going to do it anyway.
There are literally less than a hands worth of politicians I respect, most see to be a self serving, let me see what I can get out of this type ... Imo.

With reference to the question asked, @Vey nails it. Seems like amber Rudd has taken the fall for the PM's decisions whilst she was in that role.
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That was my take on it too. I just had to put it out and get the opinion of people who live there.
 
Wales4Ever said:
The Windrush saga actually began under the last Labour Government, according to Theresa May:

https://www.ft.com/content/241d219c-42f7-11e8-803a-295c97e6fd0b

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...-cards-labour-deport-government-a8310206.html

This was also commented upon by former Labour Home Secretary Alan Johnson: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-43835664

Irrespective of who started it, it is a very sorry state of affairs indeed.
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Now that Brexit is finally being finalized. Do you think it's a good thing and will May continue to be able to hold her job ?
 
Dcdevon said:
Now that Brexit is finally being finalized. Do you think it's a good thing and will May continue to be able to hold her job ?
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I don't think that she will hold on.

She is hated by many within her own party and derided by Labour, Liberal Democrats, SNP (Scottish National Party), Plaid Cymru (Welsh Nationalists), UKIP and the Greens as a weak leader.

However, who are the alternatives?

* Michael Gove is a prominent Leaver and is also in the cabinet. He would definitely be in the running to challenge Theresa May.

* 'Bonkers' Boris Johnson is also a Leaver (albeit a last minute one) but is seen as a joke and a buffoon - plus he also has bad hair like Donald Rudeman

* Jacob Rees-Mogg is lauded by Leave voters and is very popular with UKIP voters who would want to see a Rees-Mogg/Farage pact if the latter a) came back as leader and b) if UKIP won sufficient seats at the next GE. For Liberals and Remainers, this is a nightmare scenario, but it is certainly possible it could happen considering the current global shift to the right (Bolsonaro in Brazil, Rudeman in the USA, Poland and Hungary standing against the EU etc.)

You could also make a case for somebody like Penny Mordaunt and a rank outsider like Tom Tugendhat - he was David Cameron's Parliamentary Under Secretary,so he does have knowledge about the inner workings of Westminster.

I foresee a November 2019 GE, which would be the first November GE for 45 years. A May GE would be problematic, as there would be post-Brexit apathy (despite the fact that the EU will not leave officially until the next decade) and there may not be sufficient time to get manifestos drawn up.

Brexit is going to be a complete hotch-potch, one way or the other. I just hope that after the storm we get some calm and sense of order. Plus, if Parliament votes against the proposed agreement (due to be signed off today), then it is no deal.
 
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I think there is sorcery at work here, as T rump was changed to Rudeman...
 
On Tuesday, the European Court of Justice will vote on whether Brexit can be cancelled. In other words, whether the UK's triggering of Art. 50 can be revoked. A yes vote would mean that the UK could stage a second vote and, if the vote is to remain, apply to stay in the EU. If the vote is no, we would be obliged to leave so a there could be no second referendum.

However, it is likely that Leave would win again and we'd be back to square one. My gut feeling is that the 'No' vote will win.

Second, there is a little known piece of legislation called The Fixed Term Parliaments Act which was another of Cameron's gems that the country might have to pay a big price for. This would be relevant if the PM loses a no-confidence vote. She would have 14 days in which to win a confidence vote. Within that period, if Corbyn holds his own confidence vote, gets DUP backing and strikes a deal with the SNP then he could become PM, until 2022 without the need of a general election.

If she survives a VONC, then she will likely remain in office during the countdown to Brexit and then March 29th itself. I can see her standing down in April 2019 and then we'll have to see who the next PM is.
 
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