Rights and Freedoms Is nationalism bad?

nationalism (năshˈə-nə-lĭzˌəm, năshˈnə-)
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  • n.
    Devotion to the interests or culture of one's nation.
  • n.
    The belief that nations will benefit from acting independently rather than collectively, emphasizing national rather than international goals.
  • n.
    Aspirations for national independence in a country under foreign domination.
 
Ninette said:
Most countries in the world have an ethnic majority. For a Japanese person, its obvious that Japan is Japan because it was built by the Japanese for the Japanese, to them its perfectly evident. There are basically two camps of people, those who feel at home anywhere in the world and those who can only feel at home in one place. And im sorry to say, but most nationalists in europe are not racists, meaning they dont see other ethnic groups as trash to be tossed out, or direct hate towards them. Those people exist, but they are a minority. Most people just have a natural desire to keep their country majority whatever group inhabits it and theres really nothing wrong with that.
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France is a unique situation. Because neo Nazis and Neo facist groups are illegal . So people can't really say I'm guessing, we are a neo Nazis group right ? But in the case of France I completely get how nationalism would be popular to some. After WW1 and WW2 and the Nazi occupation. Also I don't know many French but the few I have known are extremely proud of their heritage and history. And there is nothing wrong with that. It's only wrong when it's motivated by hatred of others.
 
Ninette said:
Neo fascist groups are legal basically, in practice they can go by whatever name and function as an organisation. And i agree, as long as your convictions and actions are motivated by love for something, its doesnt poison the mind, although people can have different opinions if its right or not. Correct me if im wrong, but i doubt if native americans would declare a state for themselves, exclusively for native americans, because they are the original population and want to protect nature against the pollution of the modern world etc., that most self described anti nationalists would object. And thats the double standard, they would not be labelled intolerant bigots.
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The native Americans already sort of have their own state. The territories they live in are semi autonomous if they are on tribal land. They are subject to state and federal law like everyone else though. But their situation is different because people came and took what was their land. No one is trying to take France or the U.K away or the U.S for that matter. But here in the U.S Nationalism goes hand in hand with hate and bigotry. Not in every case but in many. It's part of the story of white supremacists attitudes here. Although not everyone who identifies as a Nationalist in America is a racist.
 
Ninette said:
I dont think native americans would actually qualify those patches of land as proper states, i would guess most feel cheated. And how was their land taken? By immigration from other continents, by higher birth rates, by mixing, by being led to believe they needed others to "help" them etc. It took 400 years, but they didnt have the means to fight back.
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They aren't states. They are semi autonomous lands. Of course I they feel cheated. But the Europeans were not immi.grants. They we're conquerers. It's not the same as an African or whoever coming to France. You are just trying to justify you're xenophobic ways.
 
Ninette said:
You seem quite fixated on the xenophobia and hatred part. I know you cant comprehend this, but you see, you dont actually have to hate others personalities or whatever to wanting to preserve your identity from people who use empty moralising words about tolerance and freedom to just make some extra money, at the expense of something greater than just pure materialism.
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No you are a xenophobe and you hate them.
 
Ninette said:
what a waste of time...its all so tiresome. You disappoint me, i thought we could have a reasonable discussion.
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You'll never be able to get a reasonable conversation from him. If you dont agree with him completely, you're every type of phobic you can be. And if you do make a reasonable argument against him, then he throws out insults and hateful comments
 
GamerGirl92 said:
You'll never be able to get a reasonable conversation from him. If you dont agree with him completely, you're every type of phobic you can be. And if you do make a reasonable argument against him, then he throws out insults and hateful comments
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I will have a reasonable conversation until someone says something to ridiculous for to take the conversation seriously. In her case she tried to compare the European's coming to America and murdering , raping and torturing natives with imm.igrants coming to France . Complete bullshit. If you say things that ignorant I will treat you that way.
 
Ninette said:
ugh....i wasnt comparing the methods, and i stated that earlier. I was drawing parallels with the outcome that seems inevitable.
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There are no parallels. Imm.igrants are looking for a better life by applying to come to your country. The Europeans came and took someone else's land by force and forcefully imposed there culture. There is no parallel.
 
Ninette said:
immigrants arent deities or sacred angles that come to deliver us form ourselves, thats a stupid narrative. Wanting a better life isnt a green light for whatever you want, im sorry. Especially when in just 50 years its led to 1/5 of the french population having a foreign background and all this has caused major social frictions. And for what? Cheap labour?
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I never said they were sacred. What I said was them coming is not the same as Europeans coming to America and there is no comparison. You are worried about other cultures taking over yours. But how likely is that actually to happen? Not very . But if that was to happen it would be nothing like someone coming to you're country killing you and forcing their culture on you . Most of these people were let into France. No one asked the natives could they come. They just came and took. Not what's happening in France. If you're culture chsnges it's because if natural forces not death and destruction.
 
Ninette said:
Other cultures arent being forced on european or french culture? thats just being naive or ignorant of how much things have changed in just a few decades. Most of those immigrants were lead into france, nobody asked either. Death and destruction are natural forces. If my culture changes its because of outside influences thats entered and dont respect it. The original premise wasnt about if killing ethnic groups and taking over is different from just having sa lot more babies than the other one. The premise was that when its perceived minorities that feel different and want to further their interests, thats acceptable to you, but if its europeans or whites, thats just racist. The native american in one scenario, and the eurpean on the other one cant possibly be motivated by the same innate natural desire, because one is the oppressed and the other is the oppressor, supposedly.
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Outside influences are going to change every culture. But that doesn't mean you're culture will be lost. You're fear is irrational. And people like Le Pen use that fear for their own benefit. Globalization is happening. There is nothing you can do about it. It's okay to want to preserve you're culture. But when you start buying into ' It's the big bad OTHER coming to take what's mine and make me like them' that it gets fucked up. And maybe they aren't the problem. Maybe the problem is you and your irrational fear. But keep believing what you like. I'm not trying to change your mind. But don't compare the violent history of my country with what's going on in yours.
 
Pride in one's country is natural . But never put your trust in any one Party or Leader because whatever you may hear from them may sound good and right to do ; but their agenda may be fanatical !! As in Hit.ler duriing WW2 . Always do your own study of their history ; then decide !!!
 
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Lamar56 said:
Pride in one's country is natural . But never put your trust in any one Party or Leader because whatever you may hear from them may sound good and right to do ; but their agenda may be fanatical !! As in Hit.ler duriing WW2 . Always do your own study of their history ; then decide !!!
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I completely agree! Putting blind faith in someone just because they align with a particular party can be very dangerous! Always research!
 
Dcdevon said:
In the context of Korea it makes since. But the extreme form that's being promoted in the U.S and Europe is definitely bad. There is nothing wrong with being proud of your country. I'm proud to be an American. Our political system is screwed right now but it won't fall. That can't be said of other countries. But if I were to say that makes those other countries bad and we need to keep the people from those countries out because we are inherently better that's not ok. And in America and Europe although not all nationalist are racist many are. The extreme form and racism, xenophobia and intolerance are linked. That to me is the big issue. That and the concept that for us to be great others have to be less than.
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Why is everything you mention come down to racism ?
 
Dcdevon said:
They post their views on Reddit and in videos for everyone to see. Stop living in a bubble and only getting your news from Fox. I'm not going to debate with you on whether the far right exists. I do not debate facts with people who only believe in non facts and the biased opinions of the right and their fake news. Continue living in your bubble. When it comes time for it to burst you will have no one to blame but you.
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And you are not biased ? Wow talk about denial !!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Ninette said:
I dont think native americans would actually qualify those patches of land as proper states, i would guess most feel cheated. And how was their land taken? By immigration from other continents, by higher birth rates, by mixing, by being led to believe they needed others to "help" them etc. It took 400 years, but they didnt have the means to fight back.
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Devon is into leftist revisionist History !!!
 
Ninette said:
You keep changing this constantly. First, you say my culture isnt changing, then you say it is. My culture can change, me speaking fluent english on an american website is a testament to that, but it has to be on my peoples terms otherwise its an infringement. If it wasnt already obvious, im a nationalist not out of fear for anything, its love. I dont "buy into" anything, american imperialistic influence on france is as big of a problem as frenchmen dying out because of them being outbred. There is of course a link between the two, and one does facilitate the other. I get that this might sound very weird for someones thats rootless, but it doesnt to me. And i have every moral right to further my peoples interest and my cultures preservation, the same way an indian in india does.
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Seems like y'all are pretty fucked then. Pretty soon ya'll will all be black and Arab and eating McDonald's and Tex Mex all day ! And listening to mumble rap while drinking screw top wine !!!
 
Dcdevon said:
Seems like y'all are pretty fucked then. Pretty soon ya'll will all be black and Arab and eating McDonald's and Tex Mex all day ! And listening to mumble rap while drinking screw top wine !!!
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What a hateful thing to say . Your ignorance has no limits does it ? !!!!
 
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